Asymmetric Naval Power, with Paul Lwin (CEO of HavocAI)

This week on Valley of Depth, we’re joined by Paul Lwin, co-founder and CEO of Havoc AI—a builder of integrated hardware, software, and logistics that enables collaborative, autonomous maritime operations. A former Navy test pilot and electronic warfare officer, Paul saw firsthand the strategic challenge posed by China’s industrial scale in the Pacific and set out to build an asymmetric answer. In this episode, Paul shares how Havoc went from pre-seed to delivering 40+ autonomous vessels in just 18 months, what it takes to deploy real autonomy in contested environments, and why the Navy forced them to sell their early prototypes. We also cover: Why Havoc built 12 USVs with just 5 people and a $1.2M pre-seed How Ukraine’s naval tactics shifted the Pentagon’s mindset The difference between platform, mission, and decision autonomy Why primes can’t match Havoc’s pace—or price point How Replicator changed the rules for startup engagement with DoD What it’ll take to get thousands of autonomous boats into the Pacific …and much more. Check out VoD #006 on…YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters • 0:00 - Intro 1:07 - Company Mission & Vision 3:43 - DoD Autonomous Exercise Demonstration 6:41 - Funding to Demo Timeline 8:43 - Founding Team & Headquarters 10:19 - Market Demand for Autonomous Maritime Tech 12:42 - Vertical Integration Strategy 14:30 - US Navy Capability Gaps 16:24 - Geopolitics & Business Strategy 17:40 - Product Architecture Roadmap 21:21 - Commercial Market Potential 24:05 - Autonomy Level Achieved 26:48 - Contested Environment Design 28:24 - Next Frontier in Naval Tech 30:04 - Scaling for DoD Requirements 32:09 - Competitive Differentiation 33:48 - Prime Contractor Advantages 35:21 - Replicator Initiative Impact 36:19 - Buyer Incentive Structures 37:44 - Desired Policy Changes 39:09 - Scaling Funding Requirements 40:35 - Defining Mission Success • Show notes • Havoc’s socials — https://x.com/HavocAi_USV Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Ignition’s socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/ Tectonic’s socials — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/ Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us • Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world’s hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.com Ignition: www.ignition-news.com Tectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com